The one word in Revelation 12:1 that shows you that this sign has already taken place

Disclaimer: I in no way own any rights to these images. I am just making that known now just in case someone wants to get copyright happy. These images belong to there respected owners. Nor do I support these images that promote this false sign. These are being used on a “need to be shown” basis.

“For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.  But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.  And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.” (Mark 13:22-26)

I am completely dumbfounded by those who call themselves Christians when it comes to 2 things. (There are actually more than 2 but these are more relevant at this moment). One being the false “rapture” doctrine and two being the “rapture” happening on September 23rd (or in some cases they are now working towards a plan b, c and d “rapture” window because they now doubt it could be on 9/23/17, this is there way of saving face and saying “I actually never said it was on this date, I was just making it known”).

When it comes to something that is in Scripture than there is only one view we should need to know that it is truth…the Word of God. Here are a few facts regarding this Revelation 12:1 “sign or wonder” Scripturally that John saw. John saw a wonder/sign in Heaven pointing to the birth of Jesus. Even those who claim that this sign is happening in September believe this to be true. They understand that this is the birth of Jesus while some deny it and claim its the birth of the Church. The problem with the latter is that the Church was birthed on Pentecost, not on September 23rd. And I’m not even going to get into where they get that this baby is the Church being raptured. False and wrong doctrine only leads to more deception.

The one thing that can prove that this sign has already been fulfilled is what the Greek says. You can take it at face value in English and see that this represents the birth of the Messiah Jesus but if your interpretation of Revelation is skewed you are going to end up in deep waters you can’t swim out of. I understand that not everyone is a Greek scholar or can read Greek. I am neither, but I do have it in me to search the Scriptures daily as the Bereans did and dig deeper for those gold nuggets that are in the original language.
I am going to show you the one proof of evidence in the Greek that you need to determine if this sign in Revelation 12:1 has already been fulfilled or if its for a future time or if their is a double fulfillment there. Lets look at this verse in question, “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:” This word “ōphthē -ὤφθη” is translated in the KJV as “appeared”. It means “properly, see, often with metaphorical meaning: “to see with the mind” (i.e. spiritually see), i.e. perceive (with inward spiritual perception)” and comes from the root word “horaó”. This normally comes from a night vision and it would be safe to say John saw something happening in a dream.

If you look at the literal Greek interpretation of this verse it says “And a sign great was seen“. At the time John saw this back in 90ish AD, he wrote it down in the past tense. This means that what he saw had already taken place. He was seeing something from the past and it wasn’t for a future time. And this can be proven by the Greek tense and mood he wrote this in. If you believe that Scripture was God breathed and given to these men that were led and inspired by the Holy Spirit then you take every word of God for what it says. It is not meant to be changed or interpreted any differently. So with that said, the Greek tense and mood of “ōphthē” is in the Aorist Indicative Passive. This means exactly how its originally written in the Greek. It is a simple action that took place in the past and isn’t moving forward in anyway. And that’s exactly how John wrote it. 

So according to God breathed scripture that was inspired by the Holy Spirit for men of God to write down, the sign that appeared in Heaven in Revelation 12:1 was something that John had seen that had happened sometime in his distant past. The Aortist Indicative Passive in the 3rd Person is the key. Now knowing this we can look back at this sign and come to the conclusion that this is the real sign of the birth of Jesus that happened on 3 BC on September 11th. This is a well known fact and to deny this is to then deny this sign and God breathed inspired Scripture. For those who have put out a meme that says this sign has only happened one time in 7,000 years and its on September 23rd 2017, is a blatant lie. They are denying that this sign was and is the birth of Jesus.

Some even go so far to say that this sign has a double fulfillment. Well that’s not true either, you can see that the tense and mood of this word ōphthē being Aorist Indicative Passive (AIP) that it only happened one time and it was in the past before John wrote what he saw. There is no double fulfillment of this sign but some still grasp at straws to make this sign a future event. 

When confronted with the Greek language, most people are skirting the real issue here. The Greek word John used was in the form of AORIST INDICATIVE PASSIVE. A simple understanding of grammar allows you to see this. Why didn’t he use this word “εἶδον (eidon)” instead if he wanted the sign for a future event?  This is in the form AORIST INDICATIVE ACTIVE. That is for a future event or event that happened that is continuing. Why didn’t he use that form of horaó there instead? Answer me that. That form wasn’t foriegn to John. He used it 45 times in Revelation alone. And in the entire New Testament it was used 76 times. Only used  31 times outside of Revelation. Tell me why he didn’t use that form instead, because if he did I wouldn’t of wrote this article. He didn’t use that firm because it was something that happened in the past.

Cornigo Brouwer, a moderator for the group “Revelation 12 Sign 2017” along with Scottie Clarke and Julian Brasser, had this comment on 6/21/17. I hate to repost the whole comment because it’s so ridiculous but you need to see the hoops that these people are jumping through to make this fit in their minds. 

“The brightest star in the constellation Virgo is Spica. This star is actually a combination of 2 stars, but they’re so close, one can only infer that by seperating their spectra. The child in Revelation 12 has long been interpreted as Jesus, but since a few centuries, people are beginning to see it has a double layer. It could be seen as a combination of 2 prophecies, which are so close, one can only distinguish them by separating their specifics. In the original Mazzaroth, Spica was called the Tsemech. The Branch. John 15:5: “I am the vine, ye are the branches. Jeremiah 23:5: “Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.” Tsemech can also mean ‘corn’. John 12:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.” We see the double layering coming back again and again. He had to die, and so do we, in a sense. To be clothed with a new body, without sin. Jesus is the Head, we are the body. Somehow we are one, but yet, different. He is the Light of the world, we are the light of the world. He is the Branch, we are the branches. He is the Child of a virgin, we are the child in Virgo. He has a rod of iron, we will receive a rod of iron. To me, this all makes sense. It’s as if the Holy Spirit is telling all the critics: “Hey, it’s not one star. It’s two. It’s not one prophecy, it’s two events, yet one future.” God bless! :)”

Notice at the end he says “To me, this all makes sense. It’s as if the Holy Spirit is telling all the critics: “Hey, it’s not one star. It’s two. It’s not one prophecy, it’s two events, yet one future.” He is basing this sign being a futuristic sign off of Spica being two stars. He’s disregarding any Scripture that says its a passive sign that has already taken place. He is depending more on what the Virgo sign is saying in the stars than what Gods Word says. These are the square hoops these people need to jump through time and time again. I can go on with a thousand posts just like this that try to justify this being a future sign. Its just not and they are being dishonest with themselves, others and Scripture. And besides, this placing this date as the “rapture” is wholly based on false doctrine to begin with. If you can’t Exegiate scripture at all and see that there is no “rapture” of the Church before Jesus’ second coming then you will probably believe any doctrine that is thrown out there to be carried by the wind. The bodily resurrection happens at the end. That’s it. There is no “secret rapture” happening. And the irony in their secret rapture theory being on September 23rd is that its no secret at all. Everyone knows or has heard about this sign in one way or another. The cats out of the bag so to speak…there is no secret.

Now I want to go back to this word ōphthē that is used in this particular verse that we are talking about. I already mentioned that the root word of ōphthē is this word “horaó”. This is the word that you will see in your Strongs Concordance. Strongs only gives you root words and not the original word used in Greek. This is why you should always go to the original Greek and not rely on a Strongs Concordance to tell the whole story. This word horaó is used in Strongs 684 times. That actually means that there are 56 different forms or transliterations of this one root word used in Scripture. And ōphthē is used just 18 times in the form of Aorist Indicative Passive. Three times it is used in Revelation (11:19, 12:1, 12:3), five time in the Gospels (Matthew 17:3, Mark 9:4, Luke 1:11, 22:43, 24:34), five times in the Book of Acts (7:2,26,30; 13:31; 16:9), for times in 1st Corinthians 15:5-8 and 1st Timothy 3:16. That’s 18 times that this form of this word is used (http://biblehub.com/greek/o_phthe__3708.htm). You can go through these verses and see that each appearence out of the 18 was something that happened at a one time event in the past, prior to each writer writing what actually took place.

Now there is one more thing I want to touch on. Greek scholars agree that the use of the word sign in this verse would be better translated as wonder. Now this got me thinking about how these people believe this sign is for a future event and that it wasn’t already fulfilled with the birth of Jesus. The word used here is σημεῖον (sēmeion) and in this form its used 38 times. Different forms or transliterations of this word is used 77 times, this being half of the amount used. Now this word for wonders/sign is used 15 times in the Gospels as everytime its referring to when the Pharisees and Saducees are tempting Jesus to give them a sign. Jesus replies with the sign of the Prophet Jonah. What is the sign of the Prophet Jonah? That he was in the belly of the fish for 3 days and 3 nights which is representing and pointing to the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. 
Now read what is actually being said here. And keep in mind of what is going on today with the doctrine they have created around September 23rd 2017. 

“The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven. He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red. And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times? A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.” (Matthew 16:1-4) 

These people who have formed this rapture doctrine around September 23rd are no different than the religious hypocrites of Jesus day. They ask for a sign in the heavens I might add, because Jesus refers to the Heavens and sky as an example, then tells them that there is only one sign or wonder you need to focus on…the sign of the Prophet Jonah. “A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.” Is that anymore blatant for you with what is going on today?

These people are setting themselves up for failure. Steven Fletcher predicts a rapture date every week and is wrong. After 50 failed attempts he told everyone he is a false prophet if it didn’t come to pass on a certain date and that he would stop. A week later he is back, with people still slobbering over him. Scottie Clarke has spent years establishing his false doctrine of a September 23rd rapture and if he would’ve just read scripture and exegiate properly, he wouldn’t have led thousands of people on a rabbit trail to nowhere. Steven Sewell has claimed that if the rapture doesn’t happen between 9/23 and 12/1 he will disappear for good. I hope he and these other men repent publicly on December 2nd. If not, so be it. They will continue to decieve others and be decieved.

Now all along I have said that this sign is a FALSE SIGN. What do I mean by that? I don’t mean the Revelation 12:1 sign is false in itself, that is ridiculous. It was the birth of Jesus The Messiah and was fulfilled as a TRUE SIGN from the Heavens. This is a fact. 

There is nothing false about the true sign. The false sign is being made by a wicked and perverse generation that seeks after a sign to be whisked away. These people who claim this have made it a false sign. There are those that claim they are the messiah but we know that they are false. Why? Because the true Messiah is here and His name is Jesus. That’s why this is a false sign. Because this sign has been fulfilled and they are making it out to be like it never was. This makes it a false sign. 
Through all my research on this false sign, which can be found here, I believe the Luciferians and occultists are awaiting there king. They are just loving it, watching these so called Christians await a sign that was already fulfilled. 

But would you expect anything less from a wicked generation that denies the sign of the birth of Jesus only to welcome the spirit that has decieved them this whole time. 

So what’s going to happen September 23rd? Not the rapture. You will all still be here until God has brought the last person into the Kingdom on that last day. Will the Anitchrist be birhed? According to my research, that’s where it is headed but not in the sense of a woman giving birth to an actual child. I suspect it is this Antichrist spirit that may be loosed and then we will see what will happen. The Jews await their false messiah in 5778 so spiritually everything is lining up. But there will be no “rapture”.

If you believe this false sign and are promoting it I suggest you repent of it and turn back to scripture. Rely on God’s Spirit to show you all things, not man. You will see soon enough that you haven’t went anywhere. Scripture says so.

The Bad Seeds

Below are a few posts regarding these predictions of this Revelation 12 “rapture” sign.

March 29th, 2017

I want to show you guys what doubt looks like. Its actually sad because I think Steven Sewell does great videos but he is completely off on a few things. A few being the pre-trib “rapture”, his understanding of Israel and Daniels 70 weeks. This is what happens when you bank everything on one date and make that claim that the “rapture” is on “this” certain date.

Please go read his comments. I’m betting there are a lot of other Christians who are counting on the 9/23 rapture scenario to come through and if it doesn’t then they will lose that blessed hope. He is 6 months away from it and he is already questioning it. Doubt has now set in.

I wish he understood that its not the “rapture” that’s happening. It is the beginning of the end and we wont lose our faith. 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1950888051815015&id=100006815167995

May 21st, 2017

There are 4 groups when it comes to this 9/23 “sign”. 

First group are those who could careless. 

The second group doesn’t believe its much of anything at all and writes it off. But as they are writing it off they are confronting the third group about their beliefs.

The third group believes that this is the “rapture” and has given themselves a little elbow room just incase they are still here after 9/24.

The fourth group is seeing this sign as a false sign and its infact welcoming in the Antichrist. Now this doesn’t mean that a child is born or its going to happen that particular day. We see it as something very wicked is being set into motion. 

I’m in the fourth group….obviously.  Now the second and third groups have started to fight amongst themselves and started to talk smack about each other. You have people like Steven Sewel (not so much), Scottie Clark, Gary Stearman and Billy Crone getting into the action. Its actually getting really ridiculous and now their followers are starting up in this mess. 

Here’s the thing. All of them want to disregard the original Greek and Greek tense of Revelation 12. And its actually strange because group two is agreeing with group four in that this sign was fulfilled at the birth of Jesus. The others aren’t. Group three isn’t exegiating scripture AT ALL. Not even when confronted on the issue. They are haughty (as usual) and I’m pretty sure it comes from their belief in the false pre-trib “rapture”.

I’m over it. I left every group I was in because of it and the only thing I can say is this. “Be ye not decieved”. And those aren’t my words…figure it.

May 24th, 2017

We are told by Jesus that we don’t know the day or the hour but it seems that some people didn’t read that part. This is where something like this turns into madness and is border line cult talk. I could’ve posted all 115 comments but you get the point. And the funny thing is, they still insist they aren’t setting a date for a “rapture” even after they took a 15 minute video to set a date. I almost don’t feel sorry for them. Bad interpretation leads to a strong deception. Im going to give them a few weeks after September 23rd to let them re-evalute there beliefs, then make them give an answer as to why they were misled and wrong. Scottie Clarke, Steven Sewell and Steven Fletcher are leading a lot of people in the wrong direction with this “rapture” nonsense.

17 thoughts on “The one word in Revelation 12:1 that shows you that this sign has already taken place

Add yours

  1. I just wanted to let you know that you have my name (Daniel Valles) falsely and slanderously in a list of September rapture proponents, when I have an entire book, arguing why Christ CAN’T come on that date, and that entire sign has NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH THE RAPTURE OR THE CHURCH!!! Considering that I cover this quite frequently in my videos, and repeatedly tell people to download the booklet – and study it ( https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4lMw4yuCqaBdFEtU3lPeVZjR28 ), I’m baffled as to why you would LIE about something so demonstrably false, and the direct opposite of the truth???

    Like

      1. If you read most of Revelation, it is written in John’s past tense, since he wrote it down right after he saw it – which is what he was instructed to do (Rev 1:19). He was taken in the spirit, to see things that would be in the future. Everything he saw (past) was (future) – to come. This is the same tense any writer uses about prophetic things – even Balaam used past tense – about future things. That you would even wrest and argue such shows desperation.

        Like

      2. Desperation? We interpret the book of Revelation differently. That’s obvious. Everything John saw in “the past” was not future to come. The book recapitulates throughout. I can show you by looking at the Greek tense and mood of words that some of what John saw happened prior to him writing this. And some of what John saw and wrote down was in the active mood, which means it happened and was continuing or that it was for a future time. You will not change my view on how this Book was written and I won’t change yours. Thank you for the comments and I do appreciate the work and research you put in. Obviously we didn’t agree on all things.

        Like

      3. Yes, desperation. John even saw (in the past) the new heavens and the new earth. Context gives you the understanding about relative past (to the writer’s vision) versus foreseen events yet to take place.

        If you look at the graphic, in your above article, that you claim shows the sign occurring in the past, you will notice something very important missing: she isn’t giving birth to anything, nor travailing in birth, nor even pregnant at all.

        At the time of Christ’s birth, Jupiter (the sceptre) was still over in Leo, and would just be reaching Virgo’s head a year after Christ was born, when the wise men showed up. Virgo was not even slightly pregnant at Christ’s birth. You can find a graphic timeline of the celestial events surrounding Christ’s birth (3BC-2BC) here: What The Wise Men Saw ( https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4lMw4yuCqaBRHhTT0FfQmJXRkk ). You can verify this in Stellarium.

        The sign that John described has not happened yet. Even Jesus (prior to the cross) told John that the world would see the SIGN (not event) of His birth – at the Tribulation time (we cover this in our booklet); the world would see that message: “in heaven” – which is exactly where John recorded what he foresaw would take place. It is a sign, with a familiar message, that the King is about to make another Triumphal entry.

        Like

      4. Well you can keep going on Daniel but I still disagree with you. We view this Book differently. This is why we won’t agree. Like I said, thank you for your time. Your name is off of the “list”.

        Like

  2. “Even Jesus (prior to the cross) told John that the world would see the SIGN (not event) of His birth – at the Tribulation time (we cover this in our booklet);”

    Give me the scripture for that please.

    Like

  3. And Daniel Valles, you are skirting the real issue here. The Greek word John used was in the form of AORIST INDICATIVE PASSIVE. A simple understanding of grammar allows you to see this. Why didn’t he use this word “εἶδον (eidon)” instead if he wanted the sign for a future event? This is in the form AORIST INDICATIVE ACTIVE. That is for a future event or event that happened that is continuing. Why didn’t he use that form of horaó there instead? Answer me that. That form want foriegn to John. He used it 45 times in Revelation alone. And in the entire New Testament it was used 76 times. Only used 31 times outside of Revelation. Tell me why he didn’t use that firm instead because if he did I wouldn’t of wrote that article.

    Like

    1. “The aorist is said to be “SIMPLE OCCURRENCE” …In the indicative mood the aorist tense denotes action that occurred in the past time, often translate like the the English SIMPLE PAST TENSE.” (see your above cite)

      John, the one who saw the sign, said that he saw it – then he wrote it down. It is John’s simple past tense of what he just saw. He saw it in the past – a few minutes before he wrote it down on paper. It was in the RELATIVE past to JOHN – who wrote what he FORESAW. Jesus even starts out the book of Revelation telling John to write down things that would COME HEREAFTER. He was going to be shown them; then, after he saw them (relative past), he would write down what would come here after.

      He didn’t need to use another tense, because he was writing a prophetic vision. Prophetic visions are seen in the past, written down in the present, about things that will happen in the future. Context makes this very clear. Plus, we know from understanding the celestial events that happened around the time of Christ, that it certainly did not happen in the past.

      Like

  4. So what is your real argument here Daniel. I’ve already cited the grammar of the Greek. What do you think this sign of Revelation 12:1 is exactly? The birth of Jesus? The “rapture” of the Church? The birth of the Church? I’d like to here your bottom line of this sign.

    Like

    1. It is a celestial date marker.

      The disciples asked Christ what was going to be the sign of His coming (to set up His kingdom) – He told them that it would be the sign of the Son of man. No further explanation was needed, since they all knew what that was (Virgin, Immanuel, etc.). Christ added one qualifier: that it would be seen in heaven. That story (which was obviously already fulfilled in Mary at that point) would be re-enacted in the heavens as a sign to the world that He was going to be making His second Triumphal Entry again, soon – prepare ye the way. It is an exact parallel to His first coming, and the 3.5 years leading up to the Triumphal Entry. Signs (even in everyday life) tell you about things that are coming down the pipe, so you respond accordingly. The Rev 12 passage tells us the celestial date marker for that sign, and how many days the world has after that point till Christ shows up. That is why Satan knows his time is short – at that celestial date marker.

      In that same passage, where Christ told the disciples (and John) that the sign would be seen, He also specifically mentions it in context of Tribulation events – some of which will happen before it appears. In the same passage, Christ tells His disciples what is coming before that, and what happens after that celestial date marker. It is not the rapture, birth of Christ, etc… It is a celestial date marker. Our understanding of the time where we are now, comes from what Christ said would surround that marker.

      It also explains why the enemy is awaiting their idol shepherd with the withered hand, and the one eye: their “Horatio” (timekeeper). They are expecting him BEFORE that celestial date marker. In the same breath/passage that Christ told His disciples about the sign in the heavens, He also told them that unnatural events would be happening just prior to that celestial date marker. We give a brief overview of that subject, in our time of perplexity booklet ( https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4lMw4yuCqaBUWNNcDFKV0Vlajg ). When one understands why Christ foretold that celestial date marker, we get a better understanding of why the enemy is also doing what they have been doing with the arch. They know what “time” it is.

      Like

  5. And I personally think that if Rev 12:1-3 was a prophetic sign as your claiming it is, John would have used this word in the ACTIVE form. He didn’t have a problem using it 45 other times in the same Book. He used it for the 2 beasts in Rev. 13 but not in Rev. 12. Why is that?

    Like

    1. Context will always tell you. Singling out a word tense, irrespective of context will always confuse you. Prophetic narratives which foresee things that will come hereafter will always include a mixture of the tenses. You are shown (your past) a vision about future things. You recount the entire narrative of what you have seen (your past): the future event past, unfolding narrative of events, and what it progresses to (future). Prophecy, by its very nature, will talk about future things as though past. John wrote about HIS EXPERIENCE in past tense, and recorded how it would unfold – in typical prophetic tenses.

      And, we can doubly verify the contextual understanding by looking at celestial history, and knowing that it certainly has not happened before, nor did it happen at the time of Christ. We also can see Christ mentioning it in future tense to John, prior to John’s more complete vision of what would come hereafter – along with the other events that are even recorded in Revelation 12. Both Jesus and John knew it was a future event.

      Like

      1. Thank you for your comments Daniel. I still disagree with you. I think context and the mood/tense of the Greek work hand in hand. Otherwise John would not have used the same word in the passive tense (Ch 12) and active tense (Ch 13), one chapter apart.

        Like

      2. If you had a dream last night, about the future, you would described the time narrative of how it played out, constantly referring back to that you saw the dream in the past. This is clearly written in Revelation, as the writer keeps reminding us that he was shown these things, and that he was instructed to write down what he saw. We should not at all be surprised that he keeps switching tenses – both are true. He’s telling you about something he saw, that will take place in the future; he will alternate tenses. This is normal prophetic retelling.

        Since we know historically and celestially, that the sign has not appeared (anywhere near) as described; and Jesus clearly told John that it would be seen (in the future), that helps our understanding as we go forward through the Bible. The Book of Revelation assumes one is familiar with what Christ has already spoken to John about.

        We always take what we do know, and that hedges our understanding about things in Scripture. We always go with the weightier evidence. If one does not know Greek, nor how it applies in context, then one should not rest on what they do not know – but what we do know transpired, what hasn’t transpired, and what Christ said will transpire.

        Like

Leave a Reply

Please log in using one of these methods to post your comment:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

Blog at WordPress.com.

Up ↑

%d bloggers like this: