The Four Horsemen/Seals of 86 AD

I want to continue from this study (https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1116565805119637&id=519754571467433) about the white horse rider being connected to Sagittarius and Jupiter. This study is based off of this same question. Are the following three seals associated with the constellations and specific planets? I believe when John was shown these things that he had written down, he was associating them to the signs in the heavens. Jesus told us to watch for these signs in the Sun, Moon and stars (what we call planets). For example, when John was shown a woman giving birth, he actually was seeing Virgo and Jupiter. This sign in Rev 12 in the Greek tense meant that it had happened in the past prior to John writing this. This is why I believe this sign on 9/23/17 is a false sign and false birth of Jupiter. Its bringing in this man of sin spiritually because this sign was fulfilled at the birth of Jesus at 3bc. 

By the way, I’m going to try to make this study shorter than normal and give a overview of seals 2, 3, & 4. I will try to do studies on each of these later on, like I did with the first seal. 

So since we know what we are looking for here lets get started. When looking at each of these seals they seem to be connected with constructions and planets (stars). In 1940 N.T. Bobrovnikoff wrote a paper called “Pseudo-Sciene and Revelation” for Popular Astronomy. In a few words, he believed that the positions of the planets has everything to do with egg h hat John was seeing. Not only was it in some cases historical but these signs would also be prophetic. He believed that by looking at the color of the horses, you could identify them as planets. He was right on the money. There are alot of astronomers who have found this same thing to be true.

He believed the white horse was Jupiter, red horse was Mars, black horse was Mercury and the pale horse was Saturn. I will say that some scholars identify the fourth seal with Venus but I don’t think that’s right. By knowing what planets identify with what colors of the horses, you can then see what constellations they are associated with. That was thought. Some do disagree with this and I don’t actually think you need to use the colors to identify what these seals are associated with. I didn’t have to do it with Jupiter and its obviously Sagittarius. You can do the same with the others just by reading stores. Mars has always been represented as war and this is what we see in the scripture. The second seal has a sword which is insinuating war and the blackness of it represents death. Mars has always been the ruling planet of Scorpius. Mercury is a easier one. Mercury is related to Libra and is the constellation of the scales of Judgement. And Saturn is the overseer of all the planets. He is the lord of the rings who watches over the rest of the planets. He has been called the original sun or black holed sun. Saturn rules over Taurus, the bull.  According to Rev 6:8, “And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth (1st seal), to kill with sword (2nd seal), and with hunger (3rd seal), and with death (4th seal), and with the beasts of the earth.” Emphasis is mine ( ). Here you can see that this pale horse was overseeing what seals 1, 2 & 3 were doing. This seal is a culmination of all of the first four. Like I mentioned, I will go into each one of these separately. This is a quick rundown of what these seals represent. 

So the 1st seal is Sagittarius with Jupiter ruling over it. The 2nd seal is Scorpius with Mars ruling over it. The 3rd seal is Libra with Mercury ruling over it and the 4th and final seal is Taurus with Saturn ruling over it. I will say that some people connect the four beasts of Chapter 5 to each of these riders but I’m not so sure it fits. Some also connect the four horseman to the four angels that are at the four cardinal points and seasons. This would make the first rider Aquarius, winter and the east. The second rider is Taurus, spring and the South. The third rider is Leo, summer and North. And the fourth rider is Scorpio, autumn and West. And Saturn would be the polar center. This view is based off of the beasts each saying “Come and see”. Its actually hard for me to see it this way. I think you can connect the four beasts to the four Gospels a lot easier. 

I might as well throw in seals 5 & 6 too. Seal 6  is the souls under the altar. Those were the “souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:” (verse 9). Here you can see that this is associated with Venus. Venus is represented as the feminine aspect of Lucifer, Sophia. This is Isis and Mary of the Mother/Child cult that Islam and RCC both worship. They both worship that divine feminine goddess as well as other religions and Gnosticism. Venus is said to rule both Libra and Taurus and this beast of the field, what is that? “The constellations have been called the beasts of the field, save for Aquarius the Divine man. The word zoo and zodiac comes from the Latin Zodiacus, or Greek Zoidiakos, and means little animals.” (http://www.wakingtimes.com/2013/12/16/astrology-four-horsemen-revelations/) And seal 6 is obvious, you have both the Sun and the Moon. The greater light and the lesser light. Let me also add that the phrase “seated upon” is a technical term in astronomy for situating a celestial body (Toomer 1984:16). This is the phrase used for who is sitting upon these horses.

Before I go on, I do want to add that I think these seals opening are continuing as they open to each respective Trumpet and Vial/Bowl. Read them in the order and number they go and you will notice that they are all related. I think he is off on a few of these below but you get my point. “In the Apocalypse, finally, Winckler associates some ofthe trumpets, and Jeremias all of them, with the planets.” The destruction of everything green on the earth at the soundof the first trumpet,” writes the latter, ” is an allusion to themoon, which is the lord of all verdure. At the sound of thesecond trumpet, the mention of fire and blood which destroy everything living in the sea, points to Mars ; at the thirdtrumpet a star (!) falls from heaven (Mercury ?) and turnsa third part of the waters to wormwood. At the fourthtrumpet-call the presence of the eagle announces the Jupiter-motif ; at the fifth there falls again a star from heaven (cp. Is 1 412fl- ‘ How art thou fallen from heaven, 0 day star, sonof the morning ! ‘), which opens the entrance (fountain) ofthe underworld. Here we have the same motif of Venus- Ishtar-Tammuz as in the case of the fifth seal.” (PRIMITIVE CHRISTIANITYAND ITS NON-JEWISH SOURCES by CARL CLEMEN, Ph.D., D.D.PROFESSOR IN THE UNIVERSITY OF BONN; 1912) The fifth seal/trumpet here alludes to the Morning Star ie Venus.

Now lets get into what I really want to talk about. There is an age old debate as to the dating of the Book of Revelation. I’m not going to get into this other than some need it to be prior to 70 AD to support their Preterist view and some believe its later, more towards the 95ish AD time. I hold to a later view. With that said, I started thinking about if these seals represents planets and constellations, maybe John actually saw in the spirit of what was really going on. Maybe he saw Jupiter in Sagittarius and so one being “opened”. So I wondered if John saw this vision at one time in one setting and this is what he wrote down. I decided to look at Stellarium and after hours of going through dates I found a few interesting things. 

Would you believe me if I told you in 86 AD from 9/23 to 10/8 in Jerusalem (I understand he was on Patmos and that’s not going to make a difference) that all these planets were in their respected constellations? They were according to Stellarium and not only that, the Sun and Venus were almost in a conjunction (superior?) right at the top of Libra. When I saw this it reminded me of the all seeing eye on the scales of Judgement. And Saturn was in the forehead of Taurus the bull. Another all seeing eye in the forehead. And where was the Moon you might ask? It was at the head of Virgo on 9/23 and on 10/8 it was riding on the tail of Cetus, the sea monster or great whale. Seriously, I can’t make this up and I was blown away when I saw all these planets in each of their constellations that they ruled. For 16 days they stayed like this. And before we go any further let me just say, this happened during the Chinese year of the Rooster. Seriously…I’m not even joking.

Not only that, the first three seals were in perfectly in order. So here is another kicker. I had never heard anyone say that they believed John wrote Revelation in 86 AD. I didn’t even search for this idea until after I found this. I don’t know who this man W.J. Rayment is, but he believed it was written around 85-86 AD. “The author of Revelation was John, and the date of the work seems to be in 85 or 86 AD during the Domitian Persecution of the Christians. John was sent to a penal colony on the Isle of Patmos. He was likely condemned to work in the quarries. While there he had many visions.” (http://www.biblestudyinfo.com/revelation.php) So to assume he wrote this after 86AD is a right assumption. Domitian was Emporer from 81-96 AD and he was on his prime for killing and persecuting Christians around 85-86AD. The same exact time this sign was in the heavens. Preterist aren’t going to like this sign. 

This word eidon (εἶδον) was used for “saw” and in the Greek tense its Aortist Indicative Active. This means it was something he saw prior to him actually seeing the vision and it was continually happening. So it would be safe to say that he may have seen this particular vision in Rev 6 after 86AD. But it definitely looks like what John saw happened in the heavens on a particular day, 10/8/86 AD (the final day). This correlates with the Hebrew year from 27th of Elul, 3846 to 18th of Tishrei, 3846 (20 days according to the Hebrew count). This happened during the Days of Teshuva or Repentance. The shofar is blown on the first day of Elul up until Rosh Hashanah. This word means harvesr. Here is a few interesting bits of info about the month of Tishrei. It’s the first month of the year on the civil calendar (Rosh Hashana, Yom Kippur and Sukkot) and 7th month from the Exodus. 

“The source of the name “tishrei” is to be found in the Acadian language, in which “tashreytu” means “beginning”, since it is the first of the months of the year. According to tradition, it was in Tishrei that the world was created. The constellation of Tishrei is Libra (scales or balance), because it is in Tishrei that the days and nights are in balance with each other (are of equal length). The Festival of Succoth [Tabernacles or Booths] is celebrated from 15 – 22 Tishrei in Israel (and from 15 – 23 in Diaspora communities).” (http://www.kkl-jnf.org/people-and-environment/israeli-and-jewish-festivals/rosh-hashana-sukkot/jewish-month-tishrei/) And finally “On 15 Tishrei 5709 (1948), the “Ten Plagues” military campaign was launched in the Negev and the South and the road to Eilat was broken through. On 18 Tishrei 5709 (1948), the Israel Defense Forces conquered the city of Beersheba. On 26 Tishrei 5709 (1948), the Hiram Campaign for the liberation of the Galilee was started.”

So this sign happened during Sukkot (Feast of Tabernacles). I’d say that is an interesting sign to happen during Domitians killing spree. I looked to see if this would also happen again. It doesn’t happen just like how John originally saw and how it aligned in 86AD but something does happen again. I will talk about it in the next post.

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